
Photo: Imagn Images
On August 19th, the Footballguys staff completed a 12-team 32-round IDP, PPR mock draft. Below are the league's scoring and bylaws.
League Parameters
- 12 teams
- 32 roster spots
- Starting Lineup
- 1 quarterback
- 2 running backs
- 3 wide receivers
- 1 tight end
- 1 offensive flex (running back, wide receiver, or tight end)
- 1 defensive tackle
- 2 defensive ends
- 3 linebackers
- 2 cornerbacks
- 2 safeties
- 1 defensive flex (defensive tackle, linebacker, cornerback or safety)
League Scoring
- Offensive Players
- 4 points - passing touchdown
- 6 points - rushing/receiving touchdown
- 1 point - reception
- 0.04 points - passing yard
- 0.1 points - rushing/receiving yard
- Individual Defensive Players
- 10 points - safety
- 6 points - defensive or return touchdown
- 6 points - blocked field goal
- 6 points - blocked punt
- 6 points - blocked extra point
- 5 points - sack
- 4 points - defensive interception
- 3 points - fumble recovery
- 3 points - forced fumble
- 2 points - tackle
- 1 point - assist
- 2 points - pass defensed
- 2 points - turnover forced
- 2 points - safety
- 1 point - sack
The Draft Order
The draft order was randomly generated. After the first round, the draft continues in a regular serpentine manner. Click here for the Full Draft, pick by pick
1. Daniel Simpkins
2. Chris Feery
3. John Norton
4. Jene Bramel
5. Mark Wimer
6. Justin Howe
7. Aaron Rudnicki
8. Jason Wood
9. Bear Heiser
10. Sigmund Bloom
11. James Brimacombe
12. Matt Bitonti
Starting with Daniel Simpkins from the 1.01 spot, we will go over each person's selections in the mock draft.
Daniel Simpkins - Draft Position 1
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.01 | 1 | Bell, Le'Veon PIT RB |
2.12 | 24 | Gore, Frank IND RB |
3.01 | 25 | Evans, Mike TBB WR |
4.12 | 48 | Yeldon, T.J. JAC RB |
5.01 | 49 | Gurley, Todd STL RB |
6.12 | 72 | Spiller, C.J. NOS RB |
7.01 | 73 | Wallace, Mike MIN WR |
8.12 | 96 | Brown, John ARI WR |
9.01 | 97 | Floyd, Michael ARI WR |
10.12 | 120 | Wright, Kendall TEN WR |
11.01 | 121 | Eifert, Tyler CIN TE |
12.12 | 144 | Newton, Cam CAR QB |
13.01 | 145 | Worrilow, Paul ATL LB |
14.12 | 168 | Funchess, Devin CAR WR |
15.01 | 169 | Shazier, Ryan PIT LB |
16.12 | 192 | Perriman, Breshad BAL WR |
17.01 | 193 | Green-Beckham, Dorial TEN WR |
18.12 | 216 | Alexander, Kwon TBB LB |
19.01 | 217 | Barrington, Sam GBP LB |
20.12 | 240 | Liuget, Corey SDC DE |
21.01 | 241 | Lawrence, Demarcus DAL DE |
22.12 | 264 | Greenway, Chad MIN LB |
23.01 | 265 | Carradine, Cornellius SFO DE |
24.12 | 288 | Berry, Eric KCC S |
25.01 | 289 | Pryor, Calvin NYJ S |
26.12 | 312 | Te'o, Manti SDC LB |
27.01 | 313 | Crichton, Scott MIN DE |
28.12 | 336 | Whitner, Donte CLE S |
29.01 | 337 | Brockers, Michael STL DT |
30.12 | 360 | Walker, Tyrunn DET DT |
31.01 | 361 | Peters, Marcus KCC CB |
32.12 | 384 | Jones, Byron DAL CB |
Strategy
Late-round QB, late-round IDPs.
Best Pick(s)
Simpkins grabbed value on some injured players or injury situations. Getting C.J. Spiller at 6.12 was a great selection. Even though Cam Newton just lost his top target, he's still not as bad the 12.12 position would suggest. Simpkins also grabbed Breshad Perriman at 16.12. Perriman's injury may linger into the regular season, but he'll return in the first month and could be a late-season difference-maker.
Items of Interest
In a 32-round draft, Simpkins only drafted one quarterback. 22 quarterbacks were selected, so the waiver wire won't exactly be plentiful.
Evaluation
The running back-heavy approach could leave some holes at wide receiver, but the IDPs are a nice mix of big-name players and lesser-known upside players whose defensive units will be on the field a lot. The "athletic freak" run of Funchess, Shazier, Perriman, and Green-Beckham could give this team a higher ceiling than it appears to have on the surface.
Chris Feery - Draft Position 2
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.02 | 2 | Charles, Jamaal KCC RB |
2.11 | 23 | Cobb, Randall GBP WR |
3.02 | 26 | Gordon, Melvin SDC RB |
4.11 | 47 | Cooper, Amari OAK WR |
5.02 | 50 | Watkins, Sammy BUF WR |
6.11 | 71 | Bernard, Giovani CIN RB |
7.02 | 74 | Posluszny, Paul JAC LB |
8.11 | 95 | Brees, Drew NOS QB |
9.02 | 98 | Collins, Jamie NEP LB |
10.11 | 119 | Johnson, Duke CLE RB |
11.02 | 122 | Ninkovich, Rob NEP DE |
12.11 | 143 | Cruz, Victor NYG WR |
13.02 | 146 | Rolle, Antrel CHI S |
14.11 | 167 | Witten, Jason DAL TE |
15.02 | 170 | Jackson, D'Qwell IND LB |
16.11 | 191 | Floyd, Sharrif MIN DT |
17.02 | 194 | Dorsett, Phillip IND WR |
18.11 | 215 | Helu, Roy OAK RB |
19.02 | 218 | Collins, Landon NYG S |
20.11 | 239 | Davis, Demario NYJ LB |
21.02 | 242 | Hall, Deangelo WAS CB |
22.11 | 263 | Long, Chris STL DE |
23.02 | 266 | Hankins, Johnathan NYG DT |
24.11 | 287 | McKelvin, Leodis BUF CB |
25.02 | 290 | Carr, Derek OAK QB |
26.11 | 311 | Allen, Javorius BAL RB |
27.02 | 314 | Hurns, Allen JAC WR |
28.11 | 335 | Waynes, Trae MIN CB |
29.02 | 338 | Hill, Josh NOS TE |
30.11 | 359 | Avril, Cliff SEA DE |
31.02 | 362 | Gilchrist, Marcus NYJ S |
32.11 | 383 | Kennard, Devon NYG LB |
Strategy
Well-balanced positionally.
Best Pick(s)
Despite the New Orleans offense looking like a run-first unit, Drew Brees at 8.11 is a nice quarterback selection. And while the Josh Hill hype train has cooled off considerably since early in the summer, 29.02 is paying basically nothing for him. Grabbing Landon Collins at 19.02 is nice value too as the rookie should start for a safety-needy Giants team.
Items of Interest
Selecting only six wide receivers was an interesting move. It could leave Feery very thin if any of them are injured. It's also worth noting that only two of those receivers are the top options on their teams, and being the top option for offenses like Oakland and Buffalo isn't a hugely promising proposition.
Evaluation
This team is probably stronger on the defensive side of the ball with the receivers lacking depth and the running backs consisting of mainly pass-catchers/third-down backs after the first two.
John Norton - Draft Position 3
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.03 | 3 | Lacy, Eddie GBP RB |
2.10 | 22 | Hilton, T.Y. IND WR |
3.03 | 27 | Ingram, Mark NOS RB |
4.10 | 46 | Bennett, Martellus CHI TE |
5.03 | 51 | Murray, Latavius OAK RB |
6.10 | 70 | Maclin, Jeremy KCC WR |
7.03 | 75 | Jackson, Vincent TBB WR |
8.10 | 94 | Williams, Mario BUF DE |
9.03 | 99 | Griffen, Everson MIN DE |
10.10 | 118 | Burnett, Morgan GBP S |
11.03 | 123 | Smith, Harrison MIN S |
12.10 | 142 | Jenkins, Jelani MIA LB |
13.03 | 147 | Robinson, Keenan WAS LB |
14.10 | 166 | Boldin, Anquan SFO WR |
15.03 | 171 | Tannehill, Ryan MIA QB |
16.10 | 190 | Woodson, Charles OAK S |
17.03 | 195 | Gray, Jonas NEP RB |
18.10 | 214 | Butler, Donald SDC LB |
19.03 | 219 | Hitchens, Anthony DAL LB |
20.10 | 238 | Wheaton, Markus PIT WR |
21.03 | 243 | Palmer, Carson ARI QB |
22.10 | 262 | Bucannon, Deone ARI S |
23.03 | 267 | Rodgers, Richard GBP TE |
24.10 | 286 | McClellin, Shea CHI LB |
25.03 | 291 | Johnson, David ARI RB |
26.10 | 310 | Artis-Payne, Cameron CAR RB |
27.03 | 315 | Blanton, Robert MIN S |
28.10 | 334 | Douglas, Harry TEN WR |
29.03 | 339 | Shorts, Cecil HOU WR |
30.10 | 358 | Tuck, Justin OAK DE |
31.03 | 363 | Alexander, Frank CAR DE |
32.10 | 382 | Moody, Nick SFO LB |
Strategy
Quarterback-by-Committee and mid-round defensive players.
Best Pick(s)
Selecting a pair of safeties in Morgan Burnett and Harrison Smith in Rounds 10 and 11 appears to be good value for our "IDP Guru." These players make tackles, defense passes, and will get some interceptions along the way. Despite his injury, David Johnson offers promise and comes at a cheap price tag of 25.03.
Items of Interest
Norton really wanted Mario Williams, selecting the Buffalo sack-master at 8.10. Some may view that as early, but Buffalo's defense has a chance to be very special under Rex Ryan and (as of this writing) will avoid one of their annual matchups with Tom Brady.
Evaluation
There's no questioning the guru on the defensive side of things, so I'll stick with the offense. This team is well-balanced. I like the quarterback tandem of Ryan Tannehill and Carson Palmer, but the selection of Martellus Bennett was early for my taste. The defense may need to carry the offense here.
Jene Bramel - Draft Position 4
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.04 | 4 | Watt, J.J. HOU DE |
2.09 | 21 | Forsett, Justin BAL RB |
3.04 | 28 | Hopkins, DeAndre HOU WR |
4.09 | 45 | Johnson, Andre IND WR |
5.04 | 52 | Foster, Arian HOU RB |
6.09 | 69 | Jennings, Rashad NYG RB |
7.04 | 76 | Mack, Khalil OAK LB |
8.09 | 93 | White, Roddy ATL WR |
9.04 | 100 | Smith, Steve BAL WR |
10.09 | 117 | Manning, Peyton DEN QB |
11.04 | 124 | Jordan, Cameron NOS DE |
12.09 | 141 | McCoy, Gerald TBB DT |
13.04 | 148 | Matthews, Clay GBP LB |
14.09 | 165 | Gates, Antonio SDC TE |
15.04 | 172 | Dansby, Karlos CLE LB |
16.09 | 189 | Parker, DeVante MIA WR |
17.04 | 196 | Jones, Christian CHI LB |
18.09 | 213 | Anthony, Stephone NOS LB |
19.04 | 220 | Miller, Heath PIT TE |
20.09 | 237 | Mathieu, Tyrann ARI S |
21.04 | 244 | Dunbar, Lance DAL RB |
22.09 | 261 | Vaccaro, Kenny NOS S |
23.04 | 268 | Davis, Knile KCC RB |
24.09 | 285 | Huff, Josh PHI WR |
25.04 | 292 | Barr, Anthony MIN LB |
26.09 | 309 | Williamson, Avery TEN LB |
27.04 | 316 | Hayward, Casey GBP CB |
28.09 | 333 | Turbin, Robert SEA RB |
29.04 | 340 | Hillman, Ronnie DEN RB |
30.09 | 357 | Graham, Brandon PHI LB |
31.04 | 364 | Flacco, Joe BAL QB |
32.09 | 381 | Harris, Chris DEN CB |
Strategy
Deep in the heart of Texans.
Best Pick(s)
Sure, Peyton Manning may not be the guys he was for 2013 and the early part of 2014, but there's no way he should have slid all the way out of the top 100. In fact, Jene did well backing up Manning as well with Joe Flacco in the second-to-last round.
Items of Interest
Jene threw down the gauntlet taking J.J. Watt at 1.04. No other IDP was taken until Luke Kuechly 4.02! The amount of Houston players is interesting, but the most interesting part of those selections is our Footballguys injury expert taking Arian Foster at 5.04 in any draft -- let alone one with IDPs being selected to push the typical offensive ADPs down. Perhaps the Foster injury won't be as bad as everyone thinks.
Evaluation
Normally, drafting three Houston players is not a path drafters should follow, but when one is J.J. Watt in an IDP draft and another is Arian Foster as a speculative mid-season "shot in the arm," things aren't as bad as they appear. The selection of Antonio Gates as TE1 despite his suspension is a nice one when backed up with Heath Miller who wil be fresh early in the year and playing on a potentially dominant offense. This is a very balanced team with a high ceiling on both sides of the ball.
Mark Wimer - Draft Position 5
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.05 | 5 | Brown, Antonio PIT WR |
2.08 | 20 | Graham, Jimmy SEA TE |
3.05 | 29 | Olsen, Greg CAR TE |
4.08 | 44 | David, Lavonte TBB LB |
5.05 | 53 | Mosley, C.J. BAL LB |
6.08 | 68 | Crowell, Isaiah CLE RB |
7.05 | 77 | Ivory, Chris NYJ RB |
8.08 | 92 | Smith, Torrey SFO WR |
9.05 | 101 | Hardy, Greg DAL DE |
10.08 | 116 | Kearse, Jermaine SEA WR |
11.05 | 125 | Jones, Reshad MIA S |
12.08 | 140 | Cobb, David TEN RB |
13.05 | 149 | McDonald, T.J. STL S |
14.08 | 164 | Ryan, Matt ATL QB |
15.05 | 173 | Manning, Eli NYG QB |
16.08 | 188 | Jones, Marvin CIN WR |
17.05 | 197 | Bush, Reggie SFO RB |
18.08 | 212 | Ngata, Haloti DET DT |
19.05 | 221 | Kikaha, Hau'oli NOS LB |
20.08 | 236 | Verner, Alterraun TBB CB |
21.05 | 245 | Joseph, Johnathan HOU CB |
22.08 | 260 | Smith, Jacquies TBB DE |
23.05 | 269 | Bennett, Michael SEA DE |
24.08 | 284 | Robinson, Khiry NOS RB |
25.05 | 293 | Coleman, Brandon NOS WR |
26.08 | 308 | Lemonier, Corey SFO LB |
27.05 | 317 | Hankerson, Leonard ATL WR |
28.08 | 332 | Galette, Junior WAS LB |
29.05 | 341 | Allen, Ricardo ATL S |
30.08 | 356 | Ginn Jr., Ted CAR WR |
31.05 | 365 | Clark, Frank SEA DE |
32.08 | 380 | Williams, Maxx BAL TE |
Strategy
Corner the market on TE1s, fortify linebacking corps early.
Best Picks(s)
Lavonte Davind and C.J. Mosley highlight a rather curious group of early-to-mid-round draft picks.
Items of Interest
Selecting Jimmy Graham nearly a round ahead of his typical ADP was interesting. Following that up with Greg Olsen two rounds ahead of his was a head-scratcher as well. Wimer is clearly buying into Olsen being Carolina's clear number-one target. Another curious pick was the selection of Jermaine Kearse at 10.08. Kearse isn't being selected until Round 19 of offense-only drafts, so this pick had to be a shock to the other drafters.
Evaluation
If Wimer is correct on more players than the "marketplace" (i.e. ADP) is, then he'll have a serious edge. If not, this team may struggle as the wide receiver corps is weak after Antonio Brown with Torrey Smith and Kearse being the WR2 and WR3, respectively. At running back, the team is chock-full of plodders on poor offenses, which tends to be an uphill climb in any league -- let alone PPR.
Justin Howe - Draft Position 6
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.06 | 6 | Bryant, Dez DAL WR |
2.07 | 19 | Murray, DeMarco PHI RB |
3.06 | 30 | Miller, Lamar MIA RB |
4.07 | 43 | Hyde, Carlos SFO RB |
5.06 | 54 | Kelce, Travis KCC TE |
6.07 | 67 | Wagner, Bobby SEA LB |
7.06 | 78 | Jackson, DeSean WAS WR |
8.07 | 91 | Roethlisberger, Ben PIT QB |
9.06 | 102 | Smith, Telvin JAC LB |
10.07 | 115 | Decker, Eric NYJ WR |
11.06 | 126 | Weddle, Eric SDC S |
12.07 | 139 | Vernon, Olivier MIA DE |
13.06 | 150 | Mathews, Ryan PHI RB |
14.07 | 163 | Colston, Marques NOS WR |
15.06 | 174 | Stills, Kenny MIA WR |
16.07 | 187 | Casey, Jurrell TEN DE |
17.06 | 198 | Marks, Sen'Derrick JAC DT |
18.07 | 211 | Williams, Andre NYG RB |
19.06 | 222 | Smith, Daryl BAL LB |
20.07 | 235 | Jenkins, Malcolm PHI S |
21.06 | 246 | Trevathan, Danny DEN LB |
22.07 | 259 | Talib, Aqib DEN CB |
23.06 | 270 | Kaepernick, Colin SFO QB |
24.07 | 283 | Jenkins, Janoris STL CB |
25.06 | 294 | Jones, Matt WAS RB |
26.07 | 307 | Suggs, Terrell BAL LB |
27.06 | 318 | Fairley, Nick STL DT |
28.07 | 331 | Clayborn, Adrian ATL DE |
29.06 | 342 | Chung, Patrick NEP S |
30.07 | 355 | Fleener, Coby IND TE |
31.06 | 366 | Lockett, Tyler SEA WR |
32.07 | 379 | Gregory, Randy DAL DE |
Strategy
"Let the draft come to me."
Best Pick(s)
DeSean Jackson and Ben Roethlisberger in Rounds 7 and 8 will help this team in different ways, but both are value picks. Ryan Mathews in Round 13 was also a nice selection. Mathews is among the best "handcuffs" in fantasy football, and Howe happens to own DeMarco Murray, making this nice insurance.
Items of Interest
Howe selected exactly zero wide receivers from Round 16 through Round 30. He only has six on the roster, but his top five are all at least serviceable (headed up by an elite player in Dez Bryant). Round 30 for a co-starting tight end on perhaps the league's most potent offense seems like a very good price.
Evaluation
This draft looks like a prime example of not being tied to a specific plan. Nearly every pick makes sense according to market price, and rarely does Howe appear to reach. The balance of this draft is apparent.
Aaron Rudnicki - Draft Position 7
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.07 | 7 | Gronkowski, Rob NEP TE |
2.06 | 18 | Green, A.J. CIN WR |
3.07 | 31 | McCoy, LeSean BUF RB |
4.06 | 42 | Matthews, Jordan PHI WR |
5.07 | 55 | Quinn, Robert STL DE |
6.06 | 66 | Bowman, Navorro SFO LB |
7.07 | 79 | Vereen, Shane NYG RB |
8.06 | 90 | Marshall, Brandon NYJ WR |
9.07 | 103 | Coleman, Tevin ATL RB |
10.06 | 114 | Freeman, Devonta ATL RB |
11.07 | 127 | Kendricks, Mychal PHI LB |
12.06 | 138 | Hughes, Jerry BUF DE |
13.07 | 151 | Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WR |
14.06 | 162 | Dareus, Marcell BUF DT |
15.07 | 175 | Brady, Tom NEP QB |
16.06 | 186 | Lofton, Curtis OAK LB |
17.07 | 199 | Church, Barry DAL S |
18.06 | 210 | McCourty, Jason TEN CB |
19.07 | 223 | Bridgewater, Teddy MIN QB |
20.06 | 234 | Griffin, Michael TEN S |
21.07 | 247 | Freeman, Jerrell IND LB |
22.06 | 258 | Baldwin, Doug SEA WR |
23.07 | 271 | Johnson, Michael CIN DE |
24.06 | 282 | Daniels, Owen DEN TE |
25.07 | 295 | Jackson, Fred BUF RB |
26.06 | 306 | Gipson, Tashaun CLE S |
27.07 | 319 | Grimes, Brent MIA CB |
28.06 | 330 | McKinnon, Jerick MIN RB |
29.07 | 343 | Joseph, Linval MIN DT |
30.06 | 354 | Austin, Tavon STL WR |
31.07 | 367 | Clay, Charles BUF TE |
32.06 | 378 | Davis, Thomas CAR LB |
Strategy
Late-round quarterback (especially late for his starter in Weeks 1-4). "Buffalo Solider."
Best Pick(s)
Despite being far from a favorite among fantasy experts, LeSean McCoy was a nice pick for Rudnicki here. At 3.07, McCoy's poor offense and the injury risk are priced into that number. Jordan Matthews at 4.06 as a WR2 is also a very solid selection. Both quarterbacks, Tom Brady and Teddy Bridgewater, were nice values at their prices here as well.
Items of Interest
Rudnicki grabbed two Buffalo running backs in McCoy and Fred Jackson, two Atlanta backs consecutively in Rounds 9 and 10, and two Buffalo defensive linemen in Jerry Hughes and Marcell Dareus. He also snuck in one more of Rex Ryan's gang by selecting Charles Clay in the 31st round. Rudnicki also paired up on another position group when he selected Jason McCourty and Michael Griffin from Tennessee's secondary.
Evaluation
There may have been some minor reaches at running back with Shane Vereen and the Atlanta tandem, but selecting Rob Gronkowski in Round 1 will almost always make a running back and/or receiving corps look weak on paper. Gronkowski's positional advantage at tight end should overcome that.
Jason Wood - Draft Position 8
Pick | Ovr | Selection |
1.08 | 8 | Peterson, Adrian MIN RB |
2.05 | 17 | Nelson, Jordy GBP WR |
3.08 | 32 | Jeffery, Alshon CHI WR |
4.05 | 41 | Randle, Joseph DAL RB |
5.08 | 56 | Jones, Chandler NEP DE |
6.05 | 65 | Landry, Jarvis MIA WR |
7.08 | 80 | Martin, Doug TBB RB |
8.05 | 89 | Campbell, Calais ARI DE |
9.08 | 104 | Cameron, Jordan MIA TE |
10.05 | 113 | Woodhead, Danny SDC RB |
11.08 | 128 | Johnson, Derrick KCC LB |
12.05 | 137 | Brown, Preston BUF LB |
13.08 | 152 | Mason, Tre STL RB |
14.05 | 161 | Romo, Tony DAL QB |
15.08 | 176 | Rivers, Philip SDC QB |
16.05 | 185 | Crabtree, Michael OAK WR |
17.08 | 200 | Marshall, Brandon DEN LB |
18.05 | 209 | Bradham, Nigel BUF LB |
19.08 | 224 | Quick, Brian STL WR |
20.05 | 233 | Amukamara, Prince NYG CB |
21.08 | 248 | Crawford, Tyrone DAL DT |
22.05 | 257 | Parker, Ron KCC S |
23.08 | 272 | Johnson, Chris ARI RB |
24.05 | 281 | Beasley, Cole DAL WR |
25.08 | 296 | Kerrigan, Ryan WAS LB |
26.05 | 305 | Reed, Jordan WAS TE |
27.08 | 320 | Sheppard, Kelvin MIA LB |
28.05 | 329 | White, James NEP RB |
29.08 | 344 | Ward, T.J. DEN S |
30.05 | 353 | Brown, Corey CAR WR |
31.08 | 368 | Maxwell, Byron PHI CB |
32.05 | 377 | Jackson, Malik DEN DE |
Strategy
Targets and tacklers.
Best Pick(s)
Alshon Jeffery and Jarvis Landry were nice selections at their spots. Being able to get Peterson as later as eighth overall was a boon as well. Tre Mason at 13.08 was a nice pick for the price as well.
Items of Interest
As the strategy section would suggest, Wood selected plenty of players who will be target hogs on their teams. Even Danny Woodhead will be heavily targeted when compared to many running backs. Wood also loaded up on linebackers, particularly in the middle of the draft when four straight defensive selections were linebackers. The "love" for the Buffalo defense continued here with Wood, as he selected two Buffalo linebackers (Rounds 12 and 18).
Evaluation
Led by the NFC North triumvirate of Adrian Peterson, Jordy Nelson, and Alshon Jeffery, this team looks to be quite solid at the top. If he can juggle his Tony Romo/Philip Rivers quarterback committee, this has the potential of being a very good team.
Bear Heiser - Draft Position 9
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